Jpm5000000pmThu, 15 May 2008 16:57:24 +000008 5, 2007...Thursday, May 15, 2008

Cessationism

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Please read full post before commenting! blessings -zack hensley

There is a school of thought that says the special revelation – Prophecy, tongues, the office of the Apostle and Prophet, dreams, visions, and miracles – have ceased when the first Apostles died. The school of thought is called Cessasionism. The belief is that signs and wonders, dreams, visions, prophecy, and apostolic authority were for the purpose to give authenticity to the early apostles. I bring this point up before I continue with my posts on Revelation, because many who read here subscribe to this school of thought however strongly or loosely, and I care about us knowing the truth here.

I do not agree with this school of thought for one simple reason: There is no actual evidence in scripture. I have only seen or heard of one proof texted verse (ICor. 13:8), and two more verses (Eph.2:20 and Hebrews 1:1) where we are to assume that the gifts and offices were only for those in the early church, to give credibility to there ministry. Many founding early church fathers held Cessasionalist beleifs, but later changed their views. Here are a couple of them as an exhausted list would be to long:

  • Origen (185-253 AD) He said that the gifts were signs of the “Apostolic Age”. Though He professes to have been an eye-witness to many instances of exorcism, healing, and prophecy. He states that he refused to record them however so as to not arose the laughter of the unbeliever. That’s not surprising considering Origen is the Father of the Apologetics.
  • Jason The Martyr Considered by some to be a cessasionist, but further investigation reveals that this opinion is held merely because he mentions the gifts of the spirit on different occasions, but leaves out the gift of tongues. Later study finds because he didn’t understand them, he never denounced them.
  • Augustine of Hippo. Augustine mentions the outpouring in Acts 2 to have been specifically for that age, and that those gifts no longer exist. However he reports signs and wonders, healing, and visions later in his ministry in chapter 22 of The City of God.

More history…

· Athanasius and Gregory of Nyssa From epic the Counsel of Nicaea, spoke openly about the Gifts. Athanasius said that “The gifts of the spirit are God’s sanctifying grace or manifestation… are the gifts of the Spirit… there is nothing that is perfected in the Word that isn’t through the Spirit. “ (from Crisis in Byzantium) Eusthius, also on the counsel, was told by God in a dream that the counsel would meet that give them understanding through the spirit to effectively decide scripture.

· Macarius and other early church leaders (400’s-600’s) received dreams and visions for God that dictated their decisions. Macarius was directed by the Lord in dreams to sift out heresies that were being preached in Christian sects by the likes of Nestorius, a famous heretic.

· Martin Luther Prophesied to Litchtenberg that he would be Judged by God For his false prophesy. Litchenberg had been declaring false things concerning the Peasants War. Luther said that he was not a Prophet that spoke by the Spirit of God. Luther said “God directs the external part of the world in part through human action and in part in an extraordinary manner through angles, omans” He later spoke about Christians not seeking only prophecy but the word, but never denounces the spirits move in the realm of prophecy. (“Martin Luther” by Martin Brecht)

· John Knox Moved in Great signs and wonders including dreams and visions in founding the Presbyterian Church.

· Jonathan Edwards Spoke and acknowledged the movement of the Spirit during the Great Awakening. He acknowledged the spirit of prophecy and the Spirit arousing the emotions while he spoke. He however distanced Himself from the “French prophets” of Heruenot. Not denouncing that they heard from God, but thought their bodily manifestations to be embarrassing to the faith, and had caused embarrassment to his contemporary John Wesley during a revival meeting. (“Myths about Jonathan Edwards” by Bary Chant)

· John Wesley on numerous occasions (In “A Biography of John Wesley” Stephen Tomkins) had dreams that directed him in ministry, and had times when he heard from the Lord.

Even those “mystics” during those times were not part of some obscure sect of the church. St. Bernard of Clairvieux had more authority than the Pope in his day. In fact he was asked to be Pope and sent his understudy to fill the role instead. Kings would come to Bernard and ask them what they should do. Bernard walked into nations and demanded they cease their wars, and they did. St. Francis another “mystic” written off because of that label by cessationists. Received the audible voice of the Lord as to where the church in Italy was going, walked into the Pope’s chambers and rebuked him. The Pope not only ad here’d to his rebuke, but gave him his own order as a result of his hearing the direction of the Lord. The point is, Cessationists appeal to church history to make their case when church history really says otherwise.

Many claim “Sola Scriptura” that all things that can and will be revealed are found solely in the Word and deny special revelation of any kind. I believe that the Word is indeed our primary source for revelation. Which is why when that Word contains prolific amounts of evidence in favor of the gifts and offices, I raise a brow at those who would ignore it. More over I raise a brow because those who claim that good doctrine is above all, have such bad doctrine concerning the gifts of the Spirit.

The Word is living and active; it’s Christ. Yet Jesus explicitly promised us His Holy Spirit to help us. Why would the Spirit cease operating in the way it did all through scripture because the first apostles died? For the answer to this question there is no scriptural answer. Thus cessasionism is not a biblical doctrine, but an extra biblical philosophy.

Please pause… here is why I care about this

Take a deep breath blessed cessationist friends for my intent is not to blast you, but offer some advice.

I understand I’m hammering away at something many have researched and many have believed in for years. I understand that the discussion surrounding this may break out into a large drawn out debate possibly never landing on any agreement. I take the risk of entering this sort of draining debate for this reason: God is active, and wants to speak to you, and us in the Church.

It is true that Edwards, Wesley, Augustine, Luther, the Counsel , and most fathers would not like much of what goes on in the Charismatic Church. But I also believe they would not like much of what goes on in reformed cessasionist camps. Had the Great Awakening of the 1600’s been today many cessasionist would have written it off. As many did indeed have emotional manifestations, dreams, open visions. When Edwards initially preached “Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God” Many screamed and panted as they had open visions of the ground opening up beneath them and swallowing them into Hell. This is what punctuated Edwards’ message, and sparked people desiring conversion, not just the content of his message.

In our efforts to proclaim the gospel and the message of Christ to the ends of the Earth, if we present a God that is void of encounter we are saying God is no longer active. We are being functionally atheistic. This makes God an intellectual entity, not one who is living and active. I care because I know God is living and active. I have heard the Lord speak on many occasions. I have presented the gospel to an atheist on the street and told him, “tonight God will speak to you in a dream”. He came back the next day saying “you were right! God spoke to me! He’s real!”

I care because in our day if there was ever a need for Apostles and Prophets in our land its now. Whether eschatological or not, the times we live in our treacherous, specifically for those in the faith. As the gospel is being rapidly diminished by universal and prosperity doctrines, and the testimony of the church in this hour is that NO ONE has any revelation from heaven to offer but doctrinal disputes with one another.

I care because we have to be united on this front as a church: God is living and active. God is speaking and God will display the evidences of his reality in this day.

Thesis

I appeal to my cessationist friends this: Do not let the theological neglect concerning how to minister the gifts in one part of the body lead you to neglect those very gifts that Christ has given us to effectively minister the gospel you so vehemently and rightly wish to defend. As a church we need the gifts. We need something from God, we need to know His heart, and we desperately need wisdom from heaven. I have nothing to offer this world of unbelievers unless it’s in the Word, in Christ, or revelation from Heaven.

18 Comments

  • Reducing the cessationist argument to a lack of understanding of HOW to implement the gifts is pretty cocky. It’s this “lack of understanding” on the part of Charismatics that first drove me to a cessationist position in the first place.

    I would challenge you to find

  • I’m really not trying to be cocky… I- Myself have neglected an understanding of how to minister the gifts.

    You say lack of understanding drove you to be a cessationist… thats my point.

    don’t let the lack of understand of one side drive you to neglect something That has been made evident in scripture.

  • oops. I would challenge you to find a SINGLE respectable Charismatic theologian that claims the Apostleship continues today. You’re coloring your reading of scripture, nay your entire viewing of history, with a very unorthodox position.

    If you are attempting to show the error of a line of doctrine, and teach people, maturity and honesty dictate that we define our terms if this debate is to continue.

    Tongues is considered by most “cessationists” as actual languages. If there was agreement on that, there would be little argument, because actual languages are rarely, if ever, spoken in so-called “revivals” these days. “Prophecy” by most cessationists is considered very close to what we see today as “preaching.” If we agreed on that, again, no argument. And there is a huge distinction made between healing as we see the miraculous today and the “gifts of healings” given to the Apostolic age.

    If the discussion does not address these things as well as your re-rendering of history, it will not progress to anything more than ad-hominem and will undoubtedly generate more heat than light. That’s why the premise of this post is actually very harsh. It does not and cannot foster helpful dialog. It is skewed by unrecognized biases.

    Good luck.

  • But you haven’t built a case from scripture. Only from your view of history. Who was Jason The Martyr?

  • unrecognized bias indeed.

    the prior discussions leading up to this changled me on the basis of Church history.

    It’s not a re-rendering. It’s to say that even those men acknowledged that the gifts were active. They would not have agreed with Charasmania but wouldn’t have renounced that God doesn’t speak.

    God does and will speak. That attribute about him doesn’t change anymore than the attribute of him being loving or wrathful.

    He spoke creation into existence, He spoke all through the word. He spoke to the men above, He’s at times spoken to myself. He doesn’t cease to speak. That’s all I’m trying to say.

  • Zack,
    I addressed some of these same issues last year with some of these same guys.
    Here is one of my post dealing with this subject.
    http://lbolm.wordpress.com/2007/11/17/apologetics-a-case-for-the-apostleship/

    There are more in my archives as well.

    Good luck with it and keep plugging away!!

    Love in Christ Jesus
    Jake

  • Zack it is the method of HOW GOD SPEAKS that is the point of contention.
    No cessationist alive would doubt that God still speaks today. So we could go on using the same vocabulary, but if we never read one another’s dictionaries, we’ll still be miles apart.

    It is a caricature of the cessationist position by saying it is a belief that “God does not speak today.” No cessationist believes that and by teaching that, you are inciting a view of a position that you do not fully understand or define. Whatever your intentions were, it is a misrepresentation and ultimately hurtful to the conversation.

    My comment about “re-rendering” was to point out that you are taking face-value assertions from some of the fathers of Christianity and attributing meaning without giving any quotations or explaining the context. If Jason the Martyr (sic) was indeed a believer in the gifts, how did he define them? Was his view biblical? This is the kind of actual research that you touched. It’s shallow scholarship. That’s all. And for the record, I and other cessationists don’t write off mystics because of their label, as you say, but because they subscribe to a religion of works and not of Grace. Therefore they are outside the Faith, not because they are charismatic but because they believe a false gospel. Not people I’d want “proving” my point.

    You’ve yet to bring a case from Scripture and if that is not done, I see no need to continue. If you are attempting to teach, teach from the Scripture, not out of riling up emotions against cessationists. It may not have been your intention but the content of the post has that effect.

    I would bet that you have very few cessationists actually reading. So this is a pretty safe environment to slam them. But calling cessationism a “myth” without explaining the position beyond anything more than a caricature does disservice to your readers and to the discussion. As does telling them that we don’t believe God speaks today. If you want to have a dialog, we have to engage in some sort of “doctrinal dispute” that you seem to scoff at in your post.

    Is it possible to do so?

  • Here is the deal you are jumping into a discussion thats been going on for a while. If cessasionists beleive God speaks it’s news to me based on past convos. but I buy it.

    I actually have quite a few cessationists that read. Despite what you might think the bulk of my readers are outside the IHOP world.

    You keep asking me to use scripture, i ask you the same. I’m only responding using a little research because thats all I’ve ever been given. I’ve never, NEVER been given any scripture to prove cessationism. It’s a philosophical argument that can only be argued on the grounds of philosophy. Until someone can make the argument scriptural for me. Though again scripture is clear.

  • Eph 4:11- 15 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,

    -when and where in scripture did this cease? and when did we stop speaking the truth to one another in love?

    The outpouring in Acts 2. When and where in scripture did that cease?

    I Corinthians 12:4

    Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many…
    And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts.

    And I will show you a still more excellent way. — which is Love

    –When and where do the gifts cease in the Word?

    In all of this i find it curious that Paul as he speaks of the gifts mentions love.

    Because Love is our first calling, and the more excellent way. Charismatics have been harsh and mean to cessasionists. Cessasionists have been mean to Charismatics. Neither are outside the faith, both are required to love first.

    I, I am required to love first. I have, I think legit questions, but if this post is being taken as “cocky” “harsh” and “hurtful” then i will delete it in a second.

    True I am a man of “shallow scholarship”. Something I strive to remedy by studying 4-6 hours a day. I don’t even generally study charismatic theology as you assume. most of my time is in just the Bible, then Martin Lyod Jones, Barth, A.W. Pink, Stott, John McArthur, Thomas Oden, and Grudem, and at times a little Temper Longman III.

    –You asked me for a single respectable charismatic leader who believes Apostleship exists today. Does Rinehart Bonke and Billy Graham count? they not only believe in it, but Rinehart operates in it. I think his ministry of seeing literally millions at a time get saved, and planting thousands if not millions of churches world wide is defiantly pretty significant of an Apostle.

  • @ IBLOM thanks for the link

    I want to be clear “these people” that you speak of share in the same grace we do. We are covered by the same blood. I love them dearly, which is why I was bringing this to the table.

  • Zack,
    I understand exactly where you are coming from.
    I love them in Christ and my “those people” referrence wasn’t meant as a seperation type of comment.
    I HATE anything that divides the body! Even these debates do a diservice to the reconcilliation of the Body.
    Until the body can operate as a full fledged body, not missing any parts nor being “hands” only or “ears” only, there will be division. No one has the full revelation of God the Father and for us to feel “we” have the insight that someone else is lacking, is borderline “pride”.
    The definition of “denomination” is to “divide” and to ” give value to”.
    “My way is better than your way” type of thinking will never bring the body together by anyone. It is only by the humbling of one’s self that this is possible. To get to a place that “hey, guess what ? I may be wrong!”.

    “These people” are our Brothers and Sisters. And just like most families, there are bound to be differences of opinion. The problem comes when neither side can see past their own thing. Guess what ? That includes me too !!

    Love in Christ Jesus
    Jake

  • Zack, your last comment was the the first attempt, as far as I’m aware, to present a positive argument on the subject. If I were to start throwing out verses and arguments before understanding your position, it would have left you the loophole of being able to say, “Don’t lump me in with those guys, I’m different.” I’ve heard you say that you believe in the continuation of the charismata, but that you are not a Charismatic. I find this incredibly confusing, so I did not say anything without some sort of idea as to what you actually believe.

    And while Bonnke and Graham have large individual ministries and hold big crusades (agree to disagree that “millions” have been saved), they are not respectable theologians. I think both of the men in question would agree to that. And to call one an apostle leaves out one criteria that Paul gives us in 1 Cor. 9. To see the risen Christ. The authority given an Apostle (of Christ, hence the capitalization) was a legal term, basically meaning “power of attorney.” Again the aforementioned men don’t add up.

    In regards to the communication of God today, as a cessationist, I believe God speaks today through the working of the Holy Spirit as we read his word, opening our eyes to that which was once foolishness to us. I believe this is biblical and normative. So to say we believe that God does not speak today is quite incorrect.

    In regards to your questions from Scripture…

    Peter tells us in Acts 2 that that event (the Pentecost) was THE fulfillment of Joel. One time event. “This is that which was prophesied…”

    The proof-text from Ephesians is not really a question about the charismatic gifts per se, but of the continuation of the Apostles, is it not?. Regardless, Ephesians 4 needs to be understood in light of what was written not two chapters prior in Ephesians 2:20, stating that the Apostles were the foundation of the Church with Christ as the chief cornerstone. And in 1 Cor. 3 we catch up with Paul as he uses the language of his role as foundation-builder. He cautions that no one can lay another foundation once it has been laid. This shows that Paul, under guidance from the Holy Spirit, was not expecting the office he held to continue after his death.

    You say you read Grudem who is a charismatic, but in his treatment of the subject, The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament and Today, reasons from Scripture that those claiming to hear “the very words of God” are to be believed. He also says that he does not believe that the Office of Prophet continued into the NT. And he’s a respectable theologian.

    These are not philosophical arguments. It is common that one who has not been exposed to the best of an argument will write it off, but do you really think cessationists are so uncommitted to the Bible that they would simply make up an argument? We don’t believe in the continuation of prophecy for crying out loud! How else are we going to know what God is saying than by reading his Word? :)

    I also noticed you took out the word “myth” from the title. My observation from a previous comment are negated.

  • >There is a school of thought that says the special revelation – Prophecy, tongues, the office of the Apostle and Prophet, dreams, visions, and miracles – have ceased when the first Apostles died. The school of thought is called Cessasionism.

    Well since the A/G church, the largest pentecostal denomination in the world, does not recognize the Office of the prophet or apostle does that make them cessationists? I don’t think so. You’ve just lumped the agenda of the N.A.R. into you definition, and I think that really muddies the water.

    Where did you get this “office” stuff from anyhow? I thought church government was based on elders and deacons.

    To paraphrase your own words, “I do not agree with this school of thought for one simple reason: There is no actual evidence in scripture.”

    But seriously, Zack, the office argument is not the same as cessastionism, is it?

    I think this is a thoughtful position, and it does not make the A/G cessationists.

    http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4195_apostles_prophets.pdf

    -Bill

  • I got it from past convos with people who read here. I agree that they aren’t the same i guess I just lumped it all together based on what I’ve been handed from other around the web.

    Research on cessationism is actually sparse and rather broad. Most books, and I mean books I’ve read don’t give any bible but concepts that have been passed down.

    Honestly wasn’t expecting this type backlash.

    @ drew I touched on Eph. 2:20 above. can you really tell me that your interpretation is not proof texting as well? I mean really?

    Sure I’m a shallow scholar, I’m also 26, and using this blog, (which is what i thought blogging was all about. to develope my understanding of things.

    At 26 i can’t possibly understand everything.

    But I think, again if you want to actually give me Bible that isn’t the 3 obscure verse mentioned in the post. then you can help.

    because It seems to me that you are using the Bible to fit a concept, not the other way around.

    blessings all

  • Scott.

    I will admit that you are completely right.

    this will not be fruitful

    I’m shutting this discussion down. all wanting to comment check out the next post

    .::zackhensley

  • Zack,

    It has nothing to do with age. I’m old, your’re young, but that should have no bearing whatsoever, since the Lord is no respecter of persons, otherwise we would all be in very deep trouble!

    I don’t know whether this Drew is our Drew from the Sign or of Jonah, or someone else. But it really does not matter. Age should not be a factor but truth, and what the Lord wants accomplished vis a vis the spiritual gifts. In the end, that is all that matters.

    In my humble opinion, what has happened is that the radical charismatic fringe has so polluted something that should be pure and God given to advance the kingdom of God, that we all have become suspicious as to whether anything that occurs outside of the accepted “norm” is really of God.

    I find that incredibly sad.

  • God love you Margret!

    That is the point I was trying to make the entire post!

    thank you thank you. I know we don’t agree still. But i do so appreciate your friendship.

    .::zack


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