Ask me anything!
2008 December 11
That’s right suckers! anything you wish. Covering any subject.
These posts always garner some interesting conversation. Mostly because I get asked controversial questions that I’m not afraid to answer, BUT my answer then stirs controversy.
So this is a no holds barred, free for all, cage match, question and answer time. (err except i will refrain from answering question about my personal life- it’s personal…;) )
So hit me!!
I have have 3 questions that are linked:
Why can 2 or more Jesus loving, God fearing seeking to do the will of God, people have such strong disagreement on doctrines that really shape their walk and how they relate to people and to God?
Knowing that this happens all the time, how do you approach these issues and know your not being deceieved eventhough you think you are one hundred percent right in your belief that this is what the truth is? (Sorry if this doesnt make since it is hard to put into words)
Finally, knowing that the word of God is 100% truth (and in this i am in no way disagreeing with this i believe this with my whole heart) why does it cause so much strong disagreement and deception? It almost feels like politics with alot of these issues. Again i want to make you completely aware i one hundred percent believe the word of god is the truth and no exception. Sometimes i ask what is the truth in it though.
Again sorry if this doesnt make since
Long time lurking, first time posting…
Firstly, I look forward to you answering Josh’s very deep question of “what is truth?”
What are the common lines of opposition to the pursuit of a house of prayer (versus “regular” church), and the responses given to that opposition (if any)?
And how do you encourage and cultivate a sustained lifestyle of that (while functioning in the marketplace in my case)?
Cheers,
Damo
Ok I have actually had this one on the back-burner for a while. What is the basis of Christian’s belief that a collection of books put together by an emperor who used the cross as his symbol for military campaigns, are solely and without exception the authority and word of God. How do we know that the Nicean council was in fact mandated by God and not just some organization of men put to together to protect their political power.
-thanks!
Kris
Josh!! great question and Damo welcome in interactive blogdom!
So in order:
@Josh The is a question that has gone one throughout all of Church history both BC and AD.
Can you imagine being a Jew during the days of Amos and Hosea? Both contemporaries, both prophesying straight from God two completely different messages, two different pictures of God. One of God’s wrath and anger, one of God’s love and sovereignty. I’m sure the followers of Amos probably often chided and fought with the followers of Hosea, yet both were speaking what God was saying in that hour.
But why does God do this?
Why does he have the Emerging church speaking one thing, The Charismatics speaking another, While the Reformed church yet another. All say they are right, how can we be sure?
I believe this happens for 3 reasons:
1. It forces us to our knees to ask for answers. It keeps us from being wise in our own eyes, it causes us to look to heaven for an answer.
2. We are all different pieces to the same body. The Emerging church has the community, and social justice piece that really does need to be applied to the church. The Reformed Calvinists have a piece- fighting for scripture and God’s soverignty really needs to be applied to every church. The Charismatic movement has an emphasis on the gifts and listen to the Holy Spirit, and fasting and prayer that really need to be applied to the church. Yet ALL have flaws, all have helpful elements. Each sharpens the other.
3. I Cor. 1:10-31 We are all in Christ. It causes us to to where our allegiances lie. If in the arguments we find ourselves outside of gleaning from Christ and clinging to another doctrine, or creed, or leader, then we can know we are out of bounds.
There are some thing in Christianity that can’t be debated: The Deity of Jesus, the truthfulness of scripture, and eternal punishment for those who are not in Christ. If the argument is about one of these then you can easily know you are no longer having a conversation with a brother in the faith, but a person who needs to hear the gospel of salvation.
There is to be unity, and unity requires meekness and humility.
On that we are all still learning- I hop that answered your question. feel free to hit back It’s really early in the morning!
@ Damo. The pursuit of the house of Prayer and your own are the same with one difference.
It’s the same difference between a minister and a congregant.
You cultivate a life of prayer within your context, not because you are trying to be a house of prayer but because you are a believer.
We are doing the same thing, only we have chosen that we want THIS to be our entire career. But it’s not just the praying that’s our duty, it’s be preachers and teachers of this lifestyle that Christ calls every believer.
Now for Dohse!
So the thesis of your question is: ” How do we know that the Nicean council was in fact mandated by God and not just some organization of men put to together to protect their political power.”
It’s funny how your question, Josh’s and Damo’s are all similar.
- First. Though Constantine was messed up in doctrine, he had good intentions. He didn’t arbitrarily make Christianity the religion of the roman Empire. He got radically saved, and wanted to use his power as emperor to help everyone know the truth he had found. Obviously where this was well intentioned, it wasn’t helpful and in some circumstances turned to be hurtful.
The council was called by Constine by under suggestion of others in the faith such as Hosius of Cordoba. Many had direct encounters from the Lord to call the council together. For instance Athanasius had Christ visit him in a dream and told Him to head to Nicaea. Not even knowing the a council was being convened. Their was so little clarity and organization to the faith. That they had to refocus, and deicide under holy inspiration how to define the faith- based on the scriptures. Their were heresies being promoted that Paul had addressed in Colossians and Hebrews (I believe Heb. was written by Paul) Like Gnostism, the worship of angels, sensual doctrines that Jude talked about etc. what was truth had to be defined.
We know the old testament was divine, because Christ called it thus. The Creed they formed were truths based on the teaching of Jesus and the Old Testament. Then based on those truths did they decide what letters should be in and what ones should be out resulting in our cannon today.
That’s how I understand it, but I haven’t spent to much effort trying to answer this question; I’ll tell you why in point 3.
- Second Not sure what you mean by “protect their political power” If that was the objective they would have interpreted the scriptures and faith MUCH different. I don’t think the Nicene Creed helped them in their political gain. If that was the intention, then they did a poor job of accomplishing their mission.
There WERE things that were off about the church then, just as there is now. There were doctrines that were off. Constantine’s war against “the heathens” was way off. It was bad interpretation. He was employing Roman ideals of spreading ideas to Christendom. That’s how they spread the idea of Rome, so use the same principle to spread the ideas of Christendom. Wrong for sure. But didn’t effect the council. Their interpretations didn’t justify his actions. But the Creed would’ve indicted them.
- Third and final point. God is Sovereign. God is good. God is Righteous. God is true. God is wisdom. Knowing that those are indeed truth, it would go against who he is to say for roughly 1,700 years God has been letting us live a deception and takes us away from Him.
Because of this point I don’t spend much time on this subject, and am by no means an expert. I trust that God has given us the best resources possible to know him, and live a life He called us to live.
I hope this helps you a bit!
But feel free to hit back
Cool, that’s a start. I really haven’t done much research myself, but I’m starting to, I thought I’d start here cause I know it’s a safe place. I guess one other thing that I’m looking for, is evidence within scripture that this was God’s plan…. meaning a sacred text. I remember Jesus saying that the “Holy Spirit will teach you all things”, I don’t remember him saying and “oh and then you’ll form the bible”. God’s sovereignty is exactly what scares me about this whole thing. I mean He let Israel misinterpret the prophets concerning the nature of the messiah for hundreds of years, and if you still consider Israel God’s chosen, he’s allowed it for thousands! So God is Sovereign and if he knows that allowing his church to be deceived for two thousand years will bring him glory, He’ll allow it! I guess I’ve assumed things about God in the past that turned out to be wrong, and it really shattered me. I can’t assume things any more.
Hey thanks for putting your time into this too. I really do appreciate it.
Hey Zack! This is your former FITNer, turned Phoenician friend Brittany! I definitely have enjoyed keeping up with your blog. I appreciate the honesty and clarity in which you speak. It is constantly challenging me. So I’d like to ask a question. As someone with a degree in social work, I’ve been wrestling back and forth on the issues of social justice and the Kingdom of God. I have been provoked (in a good way) to search deeper in the Scriptures to understand what social justice really looks like to the Lord. I loved Stuarts message a month or so ago when he spoke about this and I’ve devoured what you, Dave Sliker, and others from IHOP have written regarding this issue.
So my question has to do with the body of Christ corporately working together with other faith communities (Islam, Hinduism, Judiasm, etc.) around the “shared value” of helping the poor. I’d like to use the ONE campaign as an example as well as see if they fit into this category (it seems that they do). Their website states, “ONE is Americans of all beliefs and every walk of life – united as ONE – to help make poverty history.” That being said, is it wrong for believers to join/stand/give their support to the ONE campaign and groups like this?
There are many Christian leaders and music artists that are lending their voice and support to this organization and it has thrown me off balance as to the question of whether this is right or wrong. And perhaps it is gray, but if you have any thoughts I would greatly appreciate it. I realize I am throwing a specific example out there but my goal is to see the BIG picture rightly. Thanks!
Brittany
Zack,
Thanks for taking the time to do this. It does help. Still it is hard to see how 2 people can love God with all their hearts and then be so against one another in doctrine. It sometimes feels like God against God. I know that’s silly but it is crazy. I know I have been told to live out my own convictions but I guess I have a fear maybe its holy maybe it’s not that I will buy into some doctrine that really isn’t the truth. For instance on subjects like women in ministry or speaking in tongues/ prophesy. I mean it is so hard for me to understand. Plus, consistently having the arguments on both sides being so sure they are right. I don’t know, thank you again for your time.
Josh-
I hear your frustration, I agree it’s hard, and then on top of it all Paul tells us in Phil. 2 to be like minded. The audacity! My comfort comes from Jer. 9:23, “let not the wise man glory in his wisdom….But let him who glories, glory in this: that he understands and knows Me, that I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgement, and righteousness in the Earth.” Sometimes we have to simply pursue knowing Christ and trust that he’ll work out the rest. maybe that’s why Paul said I was determined to know nothing among you, except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
I have not read everything here yet because I want to get my question in.
What was the change for the human race when Jesus died and rose again.
Like did really anything change for us concerning the law. To narrow it down my friend was saying that because the vail was torn there is no difference between sexes. Like the woman has just as much rich to lead a family as the man does. Though in the old testiment it was not this way. I know that we no longer rely on sacrifices for our since because of the ultimate sacrifice but what exacly has changed?
I look forward to reading the responses.
Joe
Yes Dohse you hit the Nail on the head.
This is the whole point of I cor. 1:10-31
Paul is telling the different followers of doctrine: Some follow Paul, some Apollos…did Paul die on the cross for your sins?”
Same is true today some say I follow Luther, I follow Piper, I follow Bickle. But did Bickle die on the cross for your sins?
Least the cross be emptied of it’s power We focus on Christ.
Heb. 1 & Ijohn 1 Christ is the revelation. “He is the expression image of the invisible God upholding all thing by the Word of his power.”
I mean that is the greatest pursuit one could ever make!
Side note Dohse——————
My wife reminded me of something regarding your initial question: you asked:
“How do we know that the Nicean council was in fact mandated by God and not just some organization of men put to together to protect their political power.”
My wife being smarter than me, reminded me that only 3 years prior these men were the ones enduring physical persecution for being Christians. These guys were the leaders of the church when it was being slaughtered by Diocletian, the previous emperor.
The later catholic paintings have them pictured in golden hall ways with catholic garb on. But that’s a bad picture of them.
These guys instead still had fresh lashing wounds on their backs and arms. The were lovers of Christ faithful until death.
They had NO political agenda, because they were only just a few year prior banished.
Thought that was important to mention
krisdohse
Thank you very much, that has been something, i have looked for. No matter how much i have studied you alwasy grow in him and with that scripture i never related it to this. It is still crazy how things things divide us but the focus should be on christ.
Zack,
Thank you again, growing up in the church and really seeing hundreds of different leaders all around the world, you can see so many that follow men instead just christ, may our hearts be drawn to his instead of being drawn to a man and doctrine.
Could God create a rock so big that He couldn’t pick up my TAB…?
……
………..
…….YYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAH!
*high fives all around*
wow. dave commented on your blog – now that’s a celebrity.
p.s. @ brittany
i just did a little blurb on my opinion of the “one campaign” on my blog – zack may have different thoughts on the subject though…but if you’re intereseted.
@ Brittany
To answer your question, I’m going to write a separate post. I have a lot to say about the ONE campaign, but I need time and a post to say it in, so that I can be very clear. Because it’s tricky.
Look for it soon.
Thanks Zack! I will look for the post then.
I gotta say, this discussion was not as “robust” (to quote everyone’s favorite Emergent guy) as I was hoping.
The questions were great but the volume of them was lacking.
None of you lurkers have any great questions?? Com’ on I got all excited to answer hard hitting questions.
Bring it peeps!
Hi Zack! Are you still answering controversial questions? It took me a while to come up with a good one. So, here goes… my question/topic to discuss is about Paul and slavery and women’s role in life and ministry. How are we to apply his exhortations to slaves and women today? My friends and I had a rather spirited discussion about women’s roles in life and ministry at Onething and on the 9 hour drive home.
Well Erin, that is a wonderfully loaded question!
I’ll break it down a little, but since both my mom and wife and preachers and in full time ministry I’m sure you can bet what my answer will be.
First: Slaves
Most of the slaves Paul was addressing were indentured servants. In other words people who were too poor to pay for land, food, or livestock etc. So they would go to a rich land owner and commit to be their slave for a period of time. (5-10 years) Most would work to eat and have lodging. Though some would work to inherit some of the owner’s land or livestock. Therefore the admonishment makes sense.
Still Paul’s words toward even Black slaves would still be relevant. Though their imprisonment was un just, and despicable, It doesn’t mean that Godliness, righteousness, meekness, and love are not still required of us. We don’t get a pass even when in injustice. BUT it’s because in the righteousness of Christ are we truly free.
We are no longer slaves to sin, so even in physical captivity we can be internally free, lest we return to internally slavery as well.
Second: Women in Ministry
Argh! I like this topic but it’s hard to state my opinion with out setting up 15 qualifier’s. I’m sure my Reformed Calvinist friends are lurking in the shadow’s waiting to pounce on my answer. That said,
Woman absolutely are allowed to be in ministry. The key to understanding this is to understand the state of the church in Ephesus. Woman were overpowering the men in the church, and no men were leading, but instead shrinking back because the woman were overtaking the authority. Also the woman were dressing according to the culture of the woman who worshiped the goddess Diana. It would be the equivalent of woman now not letting any men lead in the church, and preaching sermons in a mini skirt, high heels, and a halter top with her belly button showing. Paul is addressing the woman to take a back seat for awhile, and to dress modestly.
That said, there is an order. I believe men are always at the head of the woman. BUT this has always been interpreted by men like myself with underlined selfish motives. The man being the head doesn’t mean he get to sit around and hand out orders, or boss anyone around. The head simply means if something goes wrong it’s his fault, not hers.
Eve is the one who get’s Adam to eat the apple, But it’s Adam who receive the blame.
Men are to cover women, to love, support, give, and labor to see them step into the destiny God has put before them. That is how men lead women. If men in ministry actually lead this way, the questions about woman in ministry wouldn’t be an issue.
It’ men leading poorly that leads us to point at woman and say why are you in ministry?
If men did their jobs and served the woman in their midst, they would be empowering them to be what God has called them to be.
I support my wife as a preacher and teacher, because she is clearly both.
There are New Testament examples of woman in ministry, teaching and such. Pricilla being one of a few.
I kinda babbled here, but in closing I’ll say this:
If men are the ones having this discussion they need to stop and look first at how the type of men they are being, and then think through how they can empower the woman in their midst walk out their callings. Before pulling rank.
There is a time to pull rank, but we are to lead like Christ.
Hope that helped? It’s early in the morning!
Zack,
As a woman, I have no problem with Paul’s admonishment about women not preaching or teaching in the church.
However, I think the problem comes when men and women start reading each other’s mail in the scripture. For example, guys treating the women in their lives like some kind of personal valets, by misusing the submission verses to their own advantage.
The same holds true for women. We are to concentrate on fulfilling the roles God spelled out for us, not try to micro-manage the men in our lives.
If both genders are concentrating on doing what God created each of them to do both biologically and spiritually, then we make a complete team that can pull together to do the work God has chosen for us as His people. Our roles may be separate but our priorities should be the same.
I see it intricately designed by God for men and women to be in complementary not competing. roles.
@ mbaker
“I see it intricately designed by God for men and women to be in complementary not competing. roles.”
I like this quote a lot! I agree.
Thanks Zack, good answers! I do agree with you, for the record. I definitely believe that men are to be the head of women, and that there are complimentary roles, but our culture has it so messed up, and that spills over into church. So even though I agree with the Biblical concepts, somehow the topic stirs up an emotional response in many women, which I think has to do with hurt and anger from seeing or experiencing this not being walked out well, among other reasons. My friends and I talked about how in our culture there seems to be a confusion about men’s and women’s roles… men try to be more feminine and women are trying to be more masculine. We also talked about the way our culture devalues the role of motherhood; staying at home to raise children, that having a career is better and more fulfilling. We thought that has to do with money… many people value making money over the cost and unpaid work of raising kids. In the past I have to say I would have counted myself as one who didn’t really think much of kids, but interestingly, IHOP has totally changed my feelings on that. I guess I always thought staying home with kids had to mean endless mindnumbing hours of Barney and mindless entertainment, but IHOP’s vision of training children to prophesy and walk in all the gifts of the Spirit that are available to adults has revolutionized how I think about kids. Also, something I noticed when I was at Onething this year, that I don’t think I’ve noticed before, is how many babies and little kids there were with young parents(like early to mid20s looking). That is so different from the church I’m at. Our 18 to 20something group of probably around 200 people is overwhelmingly single, and of the few married couples that there are, maybe a couple of them have kids.