Ask Away
Bring It Up!!!
This page is an open forum where you can ask anything you wish. I wish to keep the individual posts open for comments about the post.
If you have a problem with something I’ve written. Or have a topic you think I should disscuss. Or have a question for me or any of the other regulars. Or if you just want to say something, Simply ask it here.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to delete anything I deem unworthy to be posted in this public forum. 
hey, what do you mean by seeing the world through artificial light?
Well though it’s no longer “seeing the world through artificial light.” It simply meant I was on the night watch… and light bulbs were how I saw most of the world because the sun was set.
not so deep
Sooo… got questions for me? Ask away! Can’t promise I’ll answer everything… but I’ll try!
When can we grab some coffee and sit down?
Hello Zack - I am a recent reader of your blog. My husband and I subscribe to the Prayer Room and I have really wanted to ask a, perhaps silly, question. I’ve seen laptops in the prayer room and have wondered what people use them for while there?
Thanks!
Becky, Not a silly question at all.
People use laptop in the PR for a few reasons:
1.) FSM students at our Bible School are required to study, and write alot of their papers in the prayer room. The idea behind it is for them to be in an atmosphere of prayer, while studying and writing their papers.
2.) Teachers, Internship leaders, and ministry leaders put together their cirilculum/ books their writing/ notes for class/ sermons together in the prayer room for the same reason above. To be in an attitude of prayer while preparing the content that they are going to teach on. We have a value in not just studying the word, but also talking to the Holy Spirit within us for revelation while we study and put together notes and such.
3.) People use their laptops to journal in the same way people use a notebook. I personally do this. Every morning I prayer through each verse from the proverb of that day. I write out my prayer to the Lord. (asking for wisdom, or for grace and understanding to apply it to my life etc.) It is nice to have those prayers written down because I can go back and see what I asked God for and see how the Holy Spirit has been revealing that to me now. For me it’s easier to log these prayer on a laptop, because it holds more data, and I can type faster than I can write.
We discourage surfing the net while in the Prayer Room. We ask people just use sites like Blue Letter Bible, or ccel.org or for studying the word but not to check the news, social networking sites, or anything else. If people are just sitting and surfing the net we ask them if they could do that over at the coffee shop next door and keep the prayer room for prayer and study.
so that my have been a more lengthy answer then you maybe expected. But now you know.
thanks for reading!
.::zackhensley
How about those Jayhawks? That was without a doubt one of the best games this season in the NCAA. I was afraid it was going to wind up being strictly a regional thing with UNC vs. Memphis for the championship. What a pleasant surprise. Hopefully the J’s will play the same kind of game against Memphis.
Mbaker,
For real It was one of the best exhibitions of team play that I’ve seen in a long time. I actually plan on writing a post about the game later tonight!
Rock Chalk Jay Hawk!
Zack,
Thanks for the opinion party in my backyard. However, if you are going to come over there then you really need to be prepared, not scared. I like you Zack. You obviously have a large soul and while we agree on several points of doctrine we most definitely disagree here. Pardon me for being skeptical of your assertions concerning IHOP leadership decisions/stances but I believe that I have good reason for reserving judgment in regard to prior interactions. Are you speaking ‘officially’ for IHOP here on thegreycoats? Or are you merely voicing your opinion as an insider? Also, you would do well to provide primary sources to support the assertions that you make concerning your own organization’s doctrinal positions.
With that said, Premillenial eschatological understandings have gone hand in hand with dispensationalism as long as Scofield has put ink on page. That is why I describe Bickle’s position on prophetic fulfillment as an ‘augmented’ dispensationalism. His eschatology is an interesting hybrid.
I realize your tie to IHOP is binding Zack. And while the points you present are germane to my supportive points they hardly touch on the main thrust of my post. You fail to properly address the main point of the post which is the use of Latter Rain terminology within your own prophetic interpretive ‘lens’. What is good ‘Latter Rain doctrine’ and what is heretical ‘Latter Rain doctrine’? Also, the link to Branham is undeniable through the influence of Paul Cain.
Well, with these considerations aside I believe we can find common ground in clarifying your organization’s stance in delineating between your own prophetic mission statement and a false teaching. Indeed, it is sad that this document is only rarely mentioned by your leadership if it is indeed a ‘blueprint’. Maybe Mr. Bickle wants to distance his organization from this rather confusing (and possibly embarassing) document.
Zack,
First of all let me say that I think you are a great person and I have absolutely no doubt of your love and devotion to Christ.
However, I see a real dichotomy here - you don’t speak for IHOP, you say, and yet you do. I am referencing your latest comment to Haybark. We cannot be one or the other, and continue to be believable.
I understand your reluctance to be an official spokesmen, but what I am not understanding is the constant positive references to IHOP you make on your site, while refusing to discuss the negative or the controversial aspects that come up, either there or on the grey coats site. I’ve noticed that even after introducing them yourself, on your own site, you cut off the comments from dissenters when they become uncomfortable or unfavorable.
Have you talked to Mike or Stuart Greaves or any of the other prominent teachers at IHOP, and asked them to once for all answer our questions firsthand? I believe they are relevant. I guess I don’t understand why you consistently praise IHOP on your website, but when it comes to answering specific questions about their doctrine you balk or withdraw when commenters start asking hard questions.
What gives with that? You seem like a fair and reasonable guy, who is genuinely searching for truth, yet when it comes to IHOP you seem to be threatened by outsider’s questions concerning their ministry and doctrine.
@ Mbaker and Natrimony
thank you for your questions. I don’t get into the conversation because they are things that have been discussed quite often. The controversies are just that; controversy. I want to use my blog and other places to talk about the gospel and things in my heart, or in my head. IHOP has a beliefs and controversies page where they answer these questions.
If people don’t like their responses to the controversies brought up, then I don’t know what else to say. We refute Latter Rain Theology, what else is their to say?
Either people believe us or don’t. It’s not worth getting into.
If the disagreement is over doctrine like Eternal Security, the church in politics, divine election etc. then I have no problem getting into a discussion and hashing things out.
I have erred a few times in getting involved in discussions because I wanted to help bring clarity. But my effort to bring clarity hasn’t been helpful.
I speak positively about IHOP because I am the man I am today in part because of them. I know and love the leaders being brought into question personally. I know their lives, and know them as nothing but men and women of God with hearts way more tender, and caring then my own. It’s personal for me, therefore I can’t be impartial.
I resolve to continue to write and preach the gospel and things I learn in scripture. Most of the things I say that you (mbaker and Nat) and others agree with have come from them. I don’t think you disagree with them as much as you think, but maybe you do.
bless you all! I have come to respect you all as well.
I’ve got to go read my Bible.
.::zack hensley
Change of topic here,
http://www.tonyevans.org/
Go to this site and listen to the radio programs from 4/7/08 & 4/8/08. They are pretty good short sermons on Eternal Security that we spoke of in the past here.
I was pretty jazzed on it. Just thought you might like his perspective on it.
Blessing
Sorry should have given this link
http://www.tonyevans.org/site/c.feIKLOOpGlF/b.2100979/apps/nl/newsletter2.asp
Thanks Tim, love the resources you provide. I’ll check it out!
Zack,
Like us, I understand that you’re a fan of a really good cup of coffee. I hope you are not too young to remember what a really good cup tastes like. It seems to me that the coffee nowadays is rather bitter, and not full bodied. Am I alone in missing the old coffee taste? We’re tried practically every brand there is, and even the old line brands have that over roasted, slightly nutty and bitter taste. What’s your recommendation?
Hey, this really isn’t a question, but I couldn’t find a more appropriate place to put it on your site.
Try putting hspace=# and vspace=# (numbers in pixels - five should do the trick) in your image tags - I think it might make the page flow better.
I’ve been burning through some lengthy comment threads on both yours and Jim B’s blogs, and have found the conversation gracious and edifying. Thank you.
-marc
Marc thank for the advice! I know nothing about page design, so input always helps!
mbaker,
I totally agree with you. I grew up drinking coffee. Like as early as adolescence. It’s hard for me to find that good cup of coffee. I’m thankful there is a place in K.C. called the Rosterie that has the best coffee I’ve ever had.
But aside from local roasts, I haven’t been able to find good coffee. I believe if I understand the problem correctly as told to me, Coffee has that over done taste because perservitives added to most shelf coffee to “keep it fresh”. Obviously it may keep it fresh, but it tastes horrible.
I also know that over the last 15 years, coffee has become apart of pop culture. The early 90’s introduced coffee shops as the new bars. people wanting to jump on the band wagon started mass produced coffee. As production went up, quality went down.
The only solace I’ve found in the burnt tasting coffee world, is regrettably Starbucks. If the Rosterie or Broadway Cafe here in town can’t get me coffee, or I’m not in K.C. I spring for a Starbucks blend. Cafe Verona, and their Breakfast blend or the 2 regulars I enjoy. Then of course during the holidays, I love the Christmas blend. However I always put starbucks into the second place category behind local roasters who still take the time to honor the craft of coffee roasting and brewing.
Also there is a world-wide program called “the cup of excellence”. A panel of a couple hundred roasters world wide, sample coffee bean plantations all around the world every year for the best crop. Once they find it, they buy it and sell it to local roasters around the world. those roaster work their magic and prepare it for their customers. I think you can simple search your area for coffee shops that are on board with the “cup of excellence”. Especially up in the North West (I think thats where you are at) they have many who sell “the cup of excellence”.
so that’s my coffee knowledge!
blessings!
Many thanks for the info, Zack. I’ll check it all out and let you know.
Someone else was telling us about the new blend that Starbucks has called Pike’s Place. It is supposed to be more close to the real thing. Have you tried it yet? We are thinking of buying some organic green coffee beans and slow roasting ourselves, but they are very expensive.
Will let you know about that part. We’re trying to locate a reasonable sourceas we speak. Just shows you what lengths we true coffee lovers will go to trying to find that perfect cup of Joe!
Hey come out to Oregon. Like cities like Albany, Portland, and then well Washington’s Seattle. That is where the GOOD coffee is at ;-).
Though what you say is true about coffee. Starbucks tends to over roast their beans, but then you have Stumptown coffee here in p-town (portland) who under roast their coffee. Which some like and they claim it is better I tend to differ and am greatly skeptical because it is in their economic interest to roast their coffee for shorter times.
But all in all roasting coffee is an art as well as where you get the beans.
I am very partial to a company from a small city, Albany Oregon, and they are Amazing. They make sure all their coffee is fair trade, which includes traveling to where the coffee is from to make sure that people are being treated well on the coffee farms. Which I believe is important. Actually they do the same for their teas.
But they roast their beans to perfection, and they do not worry about preservatives, because they roast the coffee to order. We have a commercial account with them and they roast it Wednesday and deliver it Thursday! That is good coffee.
Also pay attention to the grinder. Use a good bur grinder, and make sure you are grinding the coffee for the way you are brewing it. Like for drip, french press, or espresso.
But to be more germane look at the beans you get. Make sure that they are not very large. Small beans are better also, make sure they are a bit oily. Oily is good.
Well I got to go…
Ahhh!! Eternalthought, a coffee conassieur. We Oregonians have a lot of coffee shacks and shops to choose from do we not? I appreciate your comments because I have been really trying to figure out how to get a simple good cup of coffee at home.
I’m having a cup of organic light blend coffee as I type, but I had to regrind the beans to make it a little darker for my own taste.
Do you have a good coffee provider in Central Oregon to recommend?
Interesting thing i saw tonight, I thought would be of note for many IHOP people. I noted in “the prophetic history of IHOP” series Mike’s mention several times of Paul Cain’s prophecy of the end time stadium movement, and how hew saw the same vision everyday for a period of time.
Paul was in Lakeland tonight talking about that prophecy, and the fact that what was happening there was the token of what will be that move- it was an inception of it. Side note was a conversation he had with the Lord about Todd being the one who was leading it when the move he had prophesied about was suppose to be a nameless and faceless people, so why him? The Lord said that it was supposed to be that way because He was offending the mind to reveal the heart of the people who see it. In so many words the Lord said to Paul that He was causing a seperation, and only the pure in heart and hungry for God would get it.
I know this will cause all kinds of consternation for some of the readers, but I thought that it might be an encouragement and some intrest to enough people to set it out here. I think we should honor the men of God who have labored before us. None can say, “look, I have never faultered in my journey.”
I am really looking forward to my trip to Lakeland the 13th. Hope to catch fire and bring it home. I am desperate for encounter with God. In a dry and weary land where there is no water to drink, my sould Longs for the courts of the living God. When shall I again appear before Him? I am foolish enough to think that I can find Him in Lakeland in a way I have never experienced Hm before, God I am hungry for You!!
Even watching this thing on line has stirred something in me, I am like caught up in this desperation for more of God, to see Him manifested in my life in such a way as to touch my family and my city. To have His presence manifested in such a way through my life as to bring dramatic healing and deliverance to hurting people. To give active, tangible proof to the kingdom I preach to people. I am just hungry and stupid enough to purchess a ticket to fly down and take someone with me in my madness. I am a lunitic, I must Have God in a manifest way in my life. i have been living for that one day when everything changes for years and years…. Could this be the hour, could these be the days that I have dreamed about, that I have seen afar off? I suspect they might be, but I do not know.
I’m ranting, but I am BURNING with a reality of GOD. Or a LACK of a reality of God in me. God I’m thirsty! I MUST HAVE YOU MANIFEST IN MY LIFE IN POWER, GOD. Does anyone hunger for this?
Haybark,
“The Lord said that it was supposed to be that way because He was offending the mind to reveal the heart of the people who see it. In so many words the Lord said to Paul that He was causing a seperation, and only the pure in heart and hungry for God would get it.
I know this will cause all kinds of consternation for some…”
Consternation, indeed. Am I not “pure in heart and hungry for God”, because I have zero interest in receiving this “anointing” from Bentley? I think (some) charismatics need to wake up and recognize that their signs/wonders paradigm is just as judgmental and divisive as that of those pesky doctrinaires who are constantly questioning and challenging them.
And why must a “hunger for God” manifest (pun intended) itself in an obsession for “signs and wonders” - gold dust/fillings, laughing, “spiritual drunkenness”, animal noises, etc.? Can (should?) a “hunger for God” not manifest itself in a desire for godliness? For love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (cough, cough)… you know, the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT?
@Haybark I agree, I am too hungry for God. I desire to see him, to know Him to Understand Him so I may worship and delight in Him in a more excellent way. I love your heart, go for it man.
@Jimb I understand your contention. I agree that there is an unnesessary obsession for signs and wonders in the charismatic camp, as their is an unnessesary obsession for defined theology in the reformed camp.
But a desire for God, A desire to know Christ will never be met with silence by His Holy Spirit that He has given us. It’s manifestation is indeed not limited to sings and wonders, nor should it be. He is faithful to answer us. Our cry for Him is not contingent upon our how good our doctrine is, though our doctrine helps us worship, love and know him better and is therefore important. However no matter the level of understanding He is always faithful answer.
Jim,
When I am hungering for God, I am asking for Him to manifest Himself in me, whith that manifestation will come a holy life- which I yearn for more than anything else that I may be well pleasing to Him. I want to reflect His glory (something you talk about often) and with that will come the fruit. I want the demonstration that Paul talked about as well, because the kingdom is not in word but in Power. I think you will agreee that we need something from God that will change peoples lives in a tangible way that they can see and realize the moment we pray.
My wife was sick this morning so I took her to the doctors office. I hate waiting and doing nothing, so I usually will grab something to read. Today I grabbed an old favorite; “The Pursuit of God,” by AW Tozer. In his preface, I read something that I want to quote here.
Quoting John Wesley, Tozer says;
“”Orthodoxy, or right opinion, is, at best, a very slender part of religion. Though right tempers cannot subsist without right opinions, yet right opinions may subsist without right tempers. There may be a right opinion about God without either love or right temper toward Him. Satan is proof of this.”
(Tozer continues) Thanks to our splendid Bible societies and to other effective agencies for dissemination of the Word, there are today many millions of people who hold “right opinions,” probably more than ever before in the history of the church. Yet I wonder if there was ever a time when true spiritual worship was at a lower ebb. To great sections of the church the art of worship has been lost entirely, and in it’s place has come that strange and foreign thing called the “program.” This word has been borowed from the stage and applied with sad wisdom to the type of public service which now passes for worship among us.
Sound Bible exposition is an imperative must in the church of the living God. Without it no church can be a New Testament church in any strict meaning of that term. But exposition may be carried on in such a way as to leave the hearers devoid of any spiritual nourishment whatever. For it is not mere words that nourish the soul, but God Himself, and unless and until the hearers find God in a personal experience they are not the better for having heard the truth. The Bible is not an end in itself, but a means to bring men to an intimate and satisfying knowledge of God, that they may enter into Him, that they may delight in His presence, may taste and know the inner sweetness of te very God Himself in the core and center of thier hearts.”
John great quote that provoked me. I love Tozer
With the Lakeland/Bentley Revival in view, I think we run the risk of missing the full application of the above Tozer quote.
“Though right tempers cannot subsist without right opinions…”
“Sound Bible exposition is an imperative must in the church of the living God. Without it no church can be a New Testament church in any strict meaning of that term.”
Does anyone really want to say that Bentley’s angel-obsessed rantings would pass for “right opinion” or “sound Bible exposition” to Tozer? Tozer’s warnings should be heeded. There certainly is a danger in a dry and dead formalism that fails to allow its right opinions/sound doctrines to affect the heart. But let us not close our ears to the reality that “WITHOUT IT [sound doctrine] NO CHURCH CAN BE A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH”.
“The Bible is not an end in itself, but a means to bring men to an intimate and satisfying knowledge of God…”
What is THE means to bringing men into an intimate and satisfying knowledge of God? Angels? Open heavens? Portals? Gold dust? Dreams? Visions? Trances?
No, the Word of God (the Bible) is the divinely ordained means of bringing men into this knowledge. Let not the fact that some have sound doctrines and hard hearts lead us to the deadly conclusion that sound doctrine is anything less than vital.
Haybark, I pray your wife is feeling better.
God Bless
Jim,
Thank you for continuing to beat the horse further and further into the ground. I think you’ve made this point more than a few times, and every time I see it I sit back and sigh.
NO ONE, at least not me is diminishing the importance of doctrine. And no one is saying we want gold dust, weird angel experiences, open heavens, portals, barking etc. NO ONE has expressed a desire for those things. In fact I’ve only ever expressed skepticism for those things. But I WILL NOT, let my skepticism for weird things cloud my view of experiencing the REAL and sound doctrinal encounters with the Holy Spirit within me who is pleased to reveal Christ in me, to me, through me, and experiencing the LIVING GOD.
How else is someone supposed to have sound doctrine? Are all believers to become versed in Greek and Hebrew and become scholars in Biblical study in order to know God and have “sound doctrine”? NO. Because then their would be no hope for a vast majority of the body. And that would be bad doctrine.
All things have been revealed in Christ, and he in us. Our helper, the Holy Spirit is the one who reveals to us the things of the Father’s heart is faithful to help us know Christ. To negate the experience with a God you consider to be living is to negate his providence. It is very clear, and of sound doctrine to see the mountain of scripture that says God speaks, and manifests himself in us. He does this through prophecy, virtue, dreams, visions, and even angelic encounters. Does endorsing this mean I endorse those who claim other versions of these? NO.
I am not, nor have I ever been speaking specifically of Charismatic encounters when speaking of these things.
I do not think Haybark is speaking of charismatic howling and flopping on the floor when he says he is hungry to encounter God. I think he is having a natural reaction to loving something; The living God. To love innately begs encounter. Again to negate this is denying ALOT.
bless you Jim, I appreciate your zeal for orthodoxy, but like Tozer says that is only a piece. You have to have both orthodoxy and revelation from the spirit within us willing to make Christ known.
So, Haybark gets to beat the dead horse, but I don’t?
I was interacting with Haybark’s comment, because Haybark has made it pretty clear where he’s coming from. Frankly, I respect Haybark’s forthrightness on these issues, though I could hardly disagree with him more.
I just thought someone should stoke the grey matter out there when someone quotes a man like Tozer to implicitly endorse a particular movement/ministry/leader. If anyone thinks Tozer would approve of Bentley or Joyner or Howard-Browne, he either doesn’t know Tozer, or doesn’t know Bentley et. al.
And I wouldn’t say, “NO ONE… is diminishing the importance of doctrine.” Of course, no one will actually say, “I diminish the importance of doctrine.” Yet, it is certainly up for discussion whether or not a particular paradigm or practice has the necessary effect of diminishing the importance of doctrine. Frankly, I think an honest look at the history of the charismatic movement must bear the reality that this is exactly the case, particularly in its more exotic varieties. (Which is not to say that all charismatics eschew doctrine - e.g. Sovereign Grace - but only to recognize the general historical trend.)